Textbook case
It’s just so fucking BORING at this point.
Octogalore’s post is great, as per usual for her; but I could predict the responses before they came swooping in, as if on cue. I’m sure a lot of us could.
So I’ll just say here what I said over there, and leave it at that, because this kind of thing is so OLD and worn-out and ridiculous at this point.
I do not understand the need some men apparently have to find a non-gendered explanation for EVERYTHING, even when it’s oh so painfully clear that it’s gender-based discrimination that’s at work. Why the fear? Is it fear of acknowledging male privilege? Well, probably. And, too, I think that’s based on a misunderstanding of what privilege means. So, stopping, listening, and learning would be a start.
I am just SO FUCKING TIRED of the reactionary, “Well, uh, no, it’s not because she’s a WOMAN… she just happens to be a woman! It’s because of x, y, and z!” excuse, over and over, trotted out for any woman who faces sexism and refuses to pretend it doesn’t exist.
The knee-jerking is just not cool, guys. You wanna be progressive? Sack up, assholes, and walk the walk in addition to talking the talk.
First, I just want to say that I feel incredibly blessed to have never worked for an sexist asshole. (Ok once, when I was a waitress, but never in my professional life.) But then again, I don’t think PD work attracts sexist / narrow-minded / conservative jerks.. just the liberal know-it-all kind.
Second, I think a lot of dumb males get promoted, not because of some overt sexist thought “Oh I can’t promote a woman!”, but because people generally like to have people around them who are like themselves. This is why many organizations overall population mirrors their persons in authority.
Note: I am not saying sexism does not exist, nor am I saying that the above formula is not inherently sexist. Just saying that I don’t think the majority of men make a conscious decision based on gender.
Well that’s exactly my point. It’s internalized. It’s not conscious. Therefore it’s easy to write off as not sexist because it’s not actively intentional; but it’s actually more insidious, for the very fact that it’s not noticed as anything unusual.
Amber — word. I think because men think that they have “gender” too that they have the same understanding of male privilege as women. I don’t as often see white women, or white people for that matter, claiming they have the kind of understanding of white privilege as a person of color does.
And yeah, the insidious stuff is much more deadly. I was told just now about a prominent female candidate I’m working with that “Mike [a key person with the client firm] isn’t so sure about her because he works better with men.” Of course, “works better with” is pure sexism, dressed up as workplace productivity, but giving off a huge whiff of BS.
I find this complaint interesting, in that one could make the same observation about something else pointed out in that thread – that men are more often victims of violent crime than women and are four times more likely to be murdered than women are. I pointed this out and the immediate response was that there must be some other factor x, y, and z that accounts for this and that gender has nothing to do with it so that couldn’t possibly be evidence of an instance female privilege.
So I can understand why you’d be annoyed if you thought that everytime you presented evidence of male privilege, it was summarily dismissed as being about something else. Of course, this is the equivalent on the other side – evidence of female privilege summarily dismissed.
In truth, I think it behooves one to dig deeper into any facts to avoid making to hasty a judgment about something, but it is interesting to see that what Amber complains about here regarding evidence of male privilege is exactly what is done regarding evidence of female privilege.
Oh and Octo, point taken that men may not have the same understanding of male privilege as women – but then by the same token, doesn’t that mean that women don’t have the same level of understanding of female privilege as men do?