*sigh*
I never should have gotten involved in this conversation. I mean, I do want to engage with Hugo and other commenters who can be respectful, because I think it’s an important dialogue that is well worth having. But I knew it would end up going, well, the way it’s gone. Because these conversations always do.
Once again, we are not talking about labor rights for sex workers. Once again, the “sex” aspect gets the focus while the “work” aspect is swept under the rug. Once again, sex workers’ voices are NOT centered - they are cast aside as “minority” and unimportant, if even considered at all.
I really wonder sometimes… how can ANYONE read a thread like that and NOT see why those in the sex workers’ rights movement do NOT want to engage with many anti-porn advocates? Why sex workers, regardless of how they feel about their work, don’t have the time of day for those attitudes that treat them as “other.” Or even any of us who are sexual minorities in any way (which in this case means a pretty damn broad brush).
How can anyone read a thread like that and not see THE BIG FUCKING PROBLEM??
The whole thing just makes me feel profoundly sad and… icky, for lack of a better word. My sexual proclivities put up for debate and analysis, again. My commitment to feminism questioned, again. My motives doubted, again. LIKE I HAVEN’T BEEN THERE BEFORE. Especially with the first one… you think I haven’t been getting that since day one when I first acknowledged myself as a sexual being and refused to keep quiet about it??
And I’m not a sex worker… so I can only imagine what it feels like for women who are sex workers to attempt to engage in such an environment. Double, triple, or quadruple the condescension, dismissal, sneering and disgust that I feel, I’m sure.
Look at this, from commenter Faith:
I do not necessarily believe that any woman who engages in ass to mouth is looking to self-destruct. I do seriously worry about anyone who engages in ATM.
You “worry?” Oh, fuck YOU! I don’t need your paternalism! Oh thank you for “worrying” about me, because THAT really makes me feel like you see me as an intellectual equal!
And the pièce de résistance, from commenter matey (the “you” in the comment in Ren):
I defy any woman who doesn’t have some serious self destruct issues to relish the idea of ATM. And although I have no idea of the kind of porn you produce, if it is ATM or anything else that perpetuates the idea that bullying and physical abuse is ‘fun’ (I do not count personal records of BDSM in that) I would see you as a traitor not only to womanhood, but also to humanity.
Emphasis mine.
Just… wow.
THIS is the kind of attitude that keeps sex workers (and to a lesser extent, any openly sexual woman) seen as “other,” asking for it, able to be murdered and not missed, raped but it’s not really rape it’s theft of services.
And so it keeps on going… *sigh*
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12 Responses to "Nothing new under the sun"
Hey, at least you aren’t a traitor to womankind and humanity! I get that distinction cause….ATM? Huh? WTF with a side order of fries and a shake?
Now, I, however, am like Ghengis Khan. I will continue on and answer every damn question that is asked to me over and over and over again…rephrased slightly, and carry a shovel for the bullshit and oh yes, even gleefully remind folk when they whine “why don’t you ever talk about — ?” That we have INDEED talked about that….
Because I am fucking stubborn. Like a wee bull. Hugo is making an effort here, and I applaud that, so no, not gonna walk away.
as for sex and work..well, work isnt nearly as fun and scandalous and whatever as sex! Why look at the BORING part of the phrase Sex Work?
oh, and Amber, lay off the porn sex…you’re hurting yourself and MEEEE!!!! You icky person!
(ok tried, couldnt even type that with a straight face…I’m gonna go watch “anal destruction” now)
I wish I had your stamina, Ren. It’s like I was telling a friend the other day - I am unable to put up a “wall” with this stuff and let the personal attacks and dismissals and obvious disgust roll off of me and keep on discussing the issue on a rational level. I just can’t. I wish I could. But it gets to me. It makes me feel like shit. I need to respect my limits and know when to walk away… even though that sucks, because yes, that means me and a lot of people like me end up not being heard. (Yes, we can write all day long on our own blogs; but all the people who read Hugo won’t necessarily deign to come over here.)
I know this sounds like a “poor me” pity party and that’s honestly not what I am going for, at all. Just trying to explain why I have to stop interacting w/ commenters like Faith at a certain point. I respect your ability to keep on with it, Ren. But I just don’t have it in me.
And, re: porn sex… it really makes me roll my eyes… sometimes I think these people must imagine I watch a ton of porn! And in reality I watch very little porn… most of it I find more amusing or silly than arousing. And yeah, I was fantasizing about anal before I ever saw porn at all, so there goes that theory (which is one of the stupidest fucking theories I’ve heard, btw).
I wish someone would come up with a list of feminist-approved sex acts. I mean, cowgirl is okay, I would guess, but what about reverse cowgirl? And what about doggy-style? Hits the g-spot, but is it degrading? 69? Seems egalitarian, but there is that whole penis-in-the-mouth thing that might be against the rules. Also, I nursed for three years of my life, so my nipples don’t have quite the sensation they used to. Is it okay in this case if my partner pinches or bites them, or is that still too violent?
As a rule-abiding feminist, I just want to make sure I’m in compliance.
Amber- But you forget, I get degraded for a living, by Professionals! Surely anything that the web feminists throw at me pales in comparision, Right?
Right?
Only not so much, really. But some of what they say is true…I do have a vested interest in this, more than a lot of people…because it IS my job and my passion…and it’s pretty apparent that no one else is gonna have a vested interest for me.
Besides, I might as well put those degrees to work somehow, since my job totally doesn’t require brain power at all, right?
It’s even worse if you’re a teenage girl. Having any kind of sex at all automatically means you’re self-destructive and have low self-esteem, apparently. Dr. Phil told me so.
There is a reason I don’t tell therapists about my sex life. (As in, having sex is not a symptom of why I need therapy, dipshits.)
[...] enjoy reading Being Amber Rhea. Its an interesting blog - waaaaaaaayyyyyy the hell out in left field, but interesting none the [...]
[...] this thread over at Amber’s got me thinking. Well, in a tangential way, [...]
Yep. Been there.
Matey: “I would see you as a traitor not only to womanhood, but also to humanity.”
*blinks*
Wow. That was klassy.
You know, my beef with all this is pretty much what I say over here:
http://trinityva.livejournal.com/913526.html
Which is: These people constantly behave sleazily in the interest of their cause. Whether that’s lying, badgering, asking leading questions, or ad hominem attacks. If we did anything half that sleazy it would be proof that you can’t trust the immoral sluts, but because this stuff is for “women’s liberation” (a phrase I increasingly suspect actually means nothing), such tactics are seen as perfectly acceptable. Or at least as excusable. Very few people on the other side condemn them., and even when they do, they tend to think their videos, articles, and projects are “important” enough that it really doesn’t matter if they break rules of basic decency to produce it.
I’m tired of that. I know and read a very small handful of anti-porn feminists that wouldn’t pull that sort of thing. But I keep wondering: Where does it keep coming from? Why is basic decency so difficult for Dr. Sun and so many others?