Death and joy never go together
On Twitter I saw a link to this post and then I saw some back-and-forth @ messaging between Sara and Griftdrift. I really don’t have time to be getting sucked into blog threads or writing one of my own right now; I’m at work and need to focus on work. But I do want to dash something off, because reading the thread at Griftdrift’s made me feel sick to my stomach.
I know the usual BS talking points: liberals are soft on crime. Whatever. This isn’t about being soft on crime. It’s about not taking such satisfaction, wipe your hands and be done w/ it, in the death of another human being.
Someone will probably say I’m trying to excuse what he did or say it’s okay. Um, hello, tell me where I said that. I get so frustrated when people put words like that in my mouth.
Far be it for me to tell anyone how to react in the face of a crime but it just seems to me like the guy in the car who shot and killed the guy over-reacted. That’s not really the right word because it sounds too much to me like people making excuses for rapists (even though this is a totally different situation, there are always assholes who will try to pretend that they’re not). But something just feels “off” about it. And it really, really bothers me.
Now, everyone has a right to defend themselves. Of course they do! And I don’t like how sometimes it seems like some people who identify as liberal or progressive are saying that people can’t defend themselves, don’t have a right to personal property, etc. To me that’s ridiculous and that’s not what I’m saying. Hello, I live in the city too and yes, we have a crime problem and no, I would not fault anyone for defending themselves against a crime, and no I do not think anything makes robbing “okay” nor do I care more about the robbers’ humanity/well-being than the victim’s!
However it’s not going to fix anything for everyone to be packing and go around shooting anyone who dares to ask for money. Until we address the underlying systemic issues that lead to so many people being in a position where they are begging for money and/or robbing others at gunpoint, we won’t actually make any progress. There has to be reform to the broken system rather than just reaction. And this is not to say some reaction is not necessary. (I feel like I can’t even get out what I want to say because I’m constantly anticipating strawman arguments in response. And I hate that word “strawman!”) But you can’t have just reaction; otherwise nothing changes. 1 in 100 adults in the U.S. are now incarcerated; tell me the system isn’t broken.
The other reason this disturbs me so much is because I’m afraid these same people (and in some cases I know it to be true) would take just as much glee in the antics of Steve Gower in midtown, persecuting and terrorizing street-based sex workers. It’s okay w/ them because it’s “crime” and who cares about those people anyway, who cares about their lives and circumstances, just get them out of my face where I don’t have to be made to feel uncomfortable. People have said “yay” and “good” to what Gower and others like him are doing and it makes me feel sick.
Situations like this really just make me worry about humanity. It makes my heart hurt and I’m not just being metaphorical when I say it makes me sick to my stomach. This is part of why I have such a problem trusting people. You never know when they’re going to turn around and rejoice because another human being is dead.
[Hitting post w/o proofreading - no time at the moment. Not that I bother most of the time anyway!]
“Situations like this really just make me worry about humanity. It makes my heart hurt and I’m not just being metaphorical when I say it makes me sick to my stomach. This is part of why I have such a problem trusting people. You never know when they’re going to turn around and rejoice because another human being is dead.”
Yes. That. That’s just horrible. Look, panhandlers get on many people’s nerves, even other panhandlers! Competition and all that, but annoyances are not a reason to kill another human being. Just…Goddess. That makes me sick to my stomach also.
This was not just an annoying panhandler. It was a guy with a gun.
If society wants to stand in judgment of criminals, society has to be better than those criminals. That means at minimum, we can’t do the things criminals do.
Not original, but I think true.
p.s., what a gorgeous house!
Shooting the guy pointing a gun at you – OK. People celebrating that some guy shot some other guy because he had to – fucked up. It’s not that the victim shot the criminal, it’s that people seem to be gleeful about it, which is just fucking weird at BEST.
YEs, thank you. To me this seems obvious but apparently it takes a lot of explaining.
And, it has happened. On the linked thread, someone has brought up rape. Is there a Godwin’s Law for this? :\ It can be a way to silence conversation when convenient, but not something to really get too involved in otherwise, not like those nasty feminists.
*sigh*
That is a friend of mine, I am pretty annoyed with him for that analogy but just do not have the mental energy to argue it and really don’t want that tangent to overwhelm the thread.
the long and sort of it: an attempted robber got what he deserved.
not gloating, just stating a fact.
i DO feel bad for the shooter, however. it’s too bad that he had to go through that.
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It’s all sad. Sad that Mr Robber was demanding money at gunpoint. Sad that Mr Shooter felt the need to carry a gun in his car.
Mostly it’s sad that in thousands of years of existence we still haven’t figured out a way to solve our problems without killing each other.
I’m sad today.
I freely admit that I took some sick sense of pleasure at first. However, as it sinks in, I’m taking a look at the situation as if I was the one pulling the trigger.
Weapons are not something I like. They are, to me, a necessary evil. I don’t want to kill. I don’t like to kill. I don’t want to have to pack heat. But I will defend myself if I must. And I would probably be farked up in the head for the rest of my life.
This guy did what he had to.
I cannot question about the number of times he fired a gun. I would probably be nervous as hell myself and would shoot multiple times.
Not arguing with what you said; indeed you made good points about how there are fundamental problems that go beyond self-defense and mere policing.
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